Kinds of Kindness is the latest feature from director Yorgos Lanthimos (Poor Things, The Favourite, The Lobster, Dogtooth). The triptych fable tells three tales and features a number of the director's frequent collaborators, including Oscar-winner Emma Stone and Willem Dafoe, along with Jesse Plemons and Margaret Qualley.
In making the Searchlight Pictures feature, Lanthimos also called on fellowPoor Things production and post production talent, including Oscar-nominated director of photography Robbie Ryan, editor Yorgos Mavropsaridis and composer Jerskin Fendrix. Additionally, Company 3 colorist Greg Fisher continued his work with the filmmaker as well, having color graded
Poor Things. Here, Fisher shares insight into the look of the feature, which was shot on film, and how he collaborated with the team, and how this project differs from his work on the director’s previous release.
Company 3's Greg Fisher
Greg, you’ve worked with both Yorgos and Robbie in the past, including on Poor Things. Is that how you came to grade Kinds of Kindness?
“Yeah, that's how I became involved. I was involved in Poor Things because I worked with Robbie previously, and we all seemed to have a good time doing Poor Things, so.”
Is it the cinematographer or the director that tends to call on you as the colorist?
“It's a mixture. I'd say sometimes, it's more of a relationship with the director. Sometimes, probably more commonly, your relationship with the cinematographer. That's who your first point of contact is, initially. But Yorgos is such a great photographer, and he's very involved in all the details of cinematography. He's one of the most visual and photographically minded directors I think I've worked with, so I'd say in the case of these films, it's my relationship with both of them.”
Emma Stone and director Yorgos Lanthimos
What was the timeline for you getting involved in this project?
“It was shot in the States, but a lot of the tests were shot over here, and the initial discussions. We came here to show LUTs for FotoKem to use for the dailies. We base that on the tests that Robbie and Yorgos shot, the conversations we had about the film. [Greg Curry] was the dailies colorist at FotoKem, and he did a good job.”
Compared to Poor Things, how did the color grading and post differ on this film?
“I would say Poor Things was much, much more difficult because it was shot in Budapest and involved two different labs – Ektachrome, and different scanning methods. This was all negative color and black & white.”
Was it all shot entirely on film, or was there a digital component?
“No, all film.”
Poor Things made use of multiple formats, including black & white film. What was the thinking in this case?
“I think the black & white sections are more characters' interpretations of a scene or if they're recalling a memory…It's more like a visualization of a memory, so the black & white sort of helps delineate it from the main narrative of the film…The black & white stock has its own character that is different from the color stocks. The grain structure is quite different. And also, I think Yorgos makes decisions that he thinks through, and once he's made a decision, ‘This is going to be black & white.’ It's not going to be reversed. He thought it through. It's a very solid decision, so why not shoot it black & white if you're if you're certain? Why not have all those characteristics of the black & white stock, but also help delineate from the color negative?”
Can you comment on the look they were going for?
“Well, it's quite naturalistic. It's quite high contrast, higher saturation, but I mean more like film prints we used to see in a pre-DI. A lot of prints the people would see now would have come from a digital intermediate, and they're not necessarily quite the same as a photochemical print from pre- DI. [They’re] a bit variable, I would say some of the prints that we see these days. When you see a photochemical prints, they're really contrasty and really colorful sometimes, and I think we've, over long periods of time, sort have forgotten how much contrast was in those prints and how nice and pleasing that can look...So whilst we were grading, it was very natural - natural lighting, locations, but we just kept adding a bit more contrast, a bit more color and just kept getting better.”
The film has different stories and then, within those, black & white and color sections? Can you talk a bit about working on a single feature with these different chunks?
“When you see the film, there are locations that are featured in the three separate stories, so I would cross-reference them obviously. Normally, they were to look very similar, so when you're in the same location as the hospital that's featured in all three films, it should feel the same. It's got the same actors. It looks the same, but it's a very different storyline, very different scenario, (with) actors playing different characters. It was a conscious thing, not to make each story different from another. It's part of the complexity of the film that they are looking the same.”
What’s your set up at Company 3? Are you working remotely or in the studio?
“For this, I was working in the theater at Company 3 London. I do, on various jobs, work remotely sometimes, but anything on a projector - I don't have a 30-foot projector at home. (laughs) That's one of the pleasures of going into the office. If I have to do some unattended grading on the monitor, I can do that from home and often do…Feature work like this, I am usually on a projector.”
What are you using for grading?
“Resolve.”
And you have a tactile work surface?
“Yeah.”
What were FotoKem’s responsibilities?
“FotoKem did the neg development, scanning and dailies. We did tests at three different labs in the States. They came out the best. That's why we went that way.”
How did the look evolve from the shoot, dailies, and grade?
“So, for the dailies, I made a LUT based on tests that were scanned at FotoKem, and then FotoKem's dailies colorists use that LUT, graded the dailies underneath it and that's what went to editorial. It wasn't a huge shock we got to the DI. It wasn't like a different LUT or different sets of scans. People get very attached to how their dailies look, whether it's good or bad. It's a very natural thing to become attached to it, I think. So if you have the opportunity to make the dailies look closer to the intended final results, it's very helpful. That's why we make the LUTs, even though the dailies grade is happening in the States. And then I just get the raw scans, and I’ll get CDLs from the dailies, which I might use or might not use. I have a starting point that is familiar to everybody. I don't always end up using that because someone's grading the dailies all out of context and it's representative of what the thinking on that day was, but it's not necessarily what will work when you cut the scene together. That's just the first part of the final grade - looking at it and making an interpretation.”
How dramatic is the grade beyond what is captured in-camera and the LUT looks?
“Well, I don't think there is a sort of nominal how it looks out of the camera. Such a thing doesn't actually exist for me. Every conversion to something you would see on a projector or video monitor has some kind of interpretation on it, so the grade is just a variation of that theme…There's the ballpark look of the film set, and then make sure it sort of matches together and works together well. And then, we might get through fine tuning things or adding more contrast or whatever Yorgos or Robbie or I feel when we review the film…It's a very reactive, instinctive thing as you watch it. You react to it and change it however everybody feels is the right thing to do. Maybe you go too far, and you pull it back.”
Was Cannes the date that you were aiming for?
“Yeah, we were trying to get the film print made in time for that. That's quite a time-consuming process. I'd say it's much more time consuming these days than it was ten years ago.”
Is there a section or scene that you would point to as a highlight?
“Oh, I don't know. There are no superfluous scenes in this film. There's a nice scene of Willem and Margaret and Jesse in the first story where Willem makes Jesse walk in the room several times, which is a very concise explanation of the dynamic within that storyline. It's very beautiful-looking scene as well.”
What are you working on next?
“I've been working on The Lord of the Rings TV series, and some testing for Yorgos' next film.”